The Jewish voice of reason

Posted by PvM on May 8, 2005 03:15 PM

Jewish voices of reason have joined in criticizing Intelligent Design. In Jews eye ‘intelligent design’ hearings

“It doesn’t seem to me that intelligent design theory really lives up to scientific standards. Having said that, I don’t think science is the ultimate explanation of our world. Science is an elaborate conceptual game, but it’s not the only game.”
“I believe in intelligent design,” said Rabbi Mark Levin of the Reform Congregation Beth Torah. “But it isn’t science; it’s theology.” The rabbi said he believes in a divine intelligence behind the creation of the world and its natural laws.
And yet he sees the attempt to introduce the notion of “intelligent design” into schools as one that breaches the constitutional principle of separation of church and state.
“It is clearly objectionable to teach theology as though it is science,” said Rabbi Levin, “because … it misinforms children and introduces religious faith into the public school system under the guise of science.”

The local Jewish perspective on this topic extends nationally as well.

Judy Hellman, special projects coordinator of the Jewish Community Relations
Bureau/American Jewish Committee, said the local agency follows the AJCommittee’s national position on the issue.

Although some Jews are still confused by the concept of evolutionary science and claim that it issimilar to teaching atheism. Nadler, unfamiliar perhaps with the scientific evidence states

Advancements in the field of genetics, he said, are leading to the conclusion that man “did not descend from the Neanderthal or the great ape.”

Nadler also argues:

Nadler waved away any concern by Jewish parents that their children might be taught a Christian-inflected view of creation in future Kansas science classrooms.
“I’m a private-school advocate,” he said. “If you are concerned that Jewish kids are going to be educated in non-Jewish ways, send them to a Jewish school.”

Hear hear. If you want your children to be taught intelligent design, send them to an appropriate religiously oriented private school.

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Comment #29004

Posted by Ben on May 8, 2005 01:40 PM (e) (s)

Didn’t anyone pay attention to Mustafa Akyol? Evolution is apparently a Jewish conspiracy.

Comment #29045

Posted by Gary Hurd on May 8, 2005 05:46 PM (e) (s)

That article was not a major endorsement of science by the Rabbinate.  We too often overlook that there are radical conservative Jews just as creationist as the radical conservative Christians, and radical conservative Muslims.  Since they all want to kill each other, it is a shame we could not oblige them.

Comment #29062

Posted by Invigilator on May 8, 2005 08:03 PM (e) (s)

Wait!  Isn’t all science a Jewish conspiracy!?

Comment #29073

Posted by "Rev Dr" Lenny Flank on May 8, 2005 08:46 PM (e) (s)

That article was not a major endorsement of science by the Rabbinate.  We too often overlook that there are radical conservative Jews just as creationist as the radical conservative Christians, and radical conservative Muslims.  Since they all want to kill each other, it is a shame we could not oblige them.

There is, after all, Lee Spetner — the guy who made the original argument that Archaeopteryx was a fake, and now wastes his time peddling ID drivel.

Comment #29077

Posted by rampancy on May 8, 2005 08:54 PM (e) (s)

Gary Hurd wrote:

That article was not a major endorsement of science by the Rabbinate.  We too often overlook that there are radical conservative Jews just as creationist as the radical conservative Christians, and radical conservative Muslims.  Since they all want to kill each other, it is a shame we could not oblige them.

Oh, don’t I wish. When that “happy day” comes, I speak for all level-headed and rational Christians when I say good riddance to the whole bloody lot of them.

Comment #29141

Posted by chieftain on May 9, 2005 09:44 AM (e) (s)

I’m glad that my [former] co-religionists are being painted in a good light here but to be honest, neither of the quotes from the rabbis are at all surprising.

Levin is a Reform rabbi - Reform is the most progressive of the Jewish movements in the US and would be very unlikely to have a problem with evolution. Various Reform rabbis have signed NCSE pledges supporting evolution teaching.

The other rabbi, Margolies, represents a Conservative synagogue - this is the Anglican church of the Jewish world, quite happy to co-exist with modernity.

I notice there’s no quote from an Orthodox rabbi. He might have a different view.

Comment #29158

Posted by jaimito on May 9, 2005 11:37 AM (e) (s)

Why do you presume that Jews are more reasonable than others? If I were less ashamed, I would tell you about what my daughters are learning in school. My hope is that they are intelligent enough to pass their exams and forget it all.

Comment #29160

Posted by PvM on May 9, 2005 11:45 AM (e) (s)

I am not presuming anything other than pointing out that manyt religious people recognize that ID is a religious argument. I recently talked to a Christian friend of mine, a professor in Biology at a Christian University who remarked that he thought ID was deceptive since it was pretending to be a science when it so obviously was not.

I realize it does not take a Jew, Christian or any other reasonable person to recognize this, even ID proponents are less inhibited in their arguments when facing a religious audience, but I find it refreshening when such admissions are publically disseminated.

Comment #29161

Posted by Gary Hurd on May 9, 2005 11:56 AM (e) (s)

I notice there’s no quote from an Orthodox rabbi. He might have a different view.

My favorite Jewish joke goes like this:

“A radio talk show on religious topics once had three rabbies a reform, a conservative, and an orthodox.  The question for the day was “What is a Jew.”

The orthodox rabbi went first, “I am a Jew. I am not sure of these other two.”

Comment #29165

Posted by Jim Harrison on May 9, 2005 12:15 PM (e) (s)

The various ideological stances one finds inside Christianity can be found inside Islam or Christianity—heck, in Sri Lanka, there are even fundmentalist Buddhists and the genial Tibetans come across like tolerant, amused Anglicans. The real-world tendencies of the various denominations reflect contemporary cultural and political issues rather than eternal debates. Which is why an American TV preacher, a Shinto nationalist, and Islamic traditionalist have more in common with one another than with progressive or moderate members of their own faiths. What the historican Jeffery Herf called “Reactionary Modernism” in a book of the same name, is truly ecumenical.

Comment #29170

Posted by frank schmidt on May 9, 2005 12:48 PM (e) (s)

Actually there is a quote from an Orthodox rabbi:

Rabbi David Fine of the Orthodox Congregation Beth Israel Abraham and Voliner said his thoughts on the debate are best summed up quoting Alan Mittleman, director of the Louis Finkelstein Institute for Religious and Social Studies at the Jewish Theological Seminary:

“It doesn’t seem to me that intelligent design theory really lives up to scientific standards. Having said that, I don’t think science is the ultimate explanation of our world. Science is an elaborate conceptual game, but it’s not the only game.”

So, while this particular Orthodox rabbi wanted to remind us that science doesn’t deal with the subjects of religion, he doesn’t want IDC taught as science. This is no surprise - the struggle isn’t between belief and nonbelief, it’s between the fundies (of whatever denomination) and the real world.

Comment #29308

Posted by isidore on May 10, 2005 07:56 AM (e) (s)

“We too often overlook that there are radical conservative Jews just as creationist as the radical conservative Christians, and radical conservative Muslims.  Since they all want to kill each other, it is a shame we could not oblige them.”

“Oh, don’t I wish. When that “happy day” comes, I speak for all level-headed and rational Christians when I say good riddance to the whole bloody lot of them.”

“the struggle isn’t between belief and nonbelief, it’s between the fundies (of whatever denomination) and the real world.”

__________________________

No, it’s between the fundies of proselytizing religions like Christianity and Islam and the real world.  Jews, in general, could care less about forcefully imposing their own beliefs on other people. 

And please note that in Israel, despite the growing divide between orthodox and secular populations, science education and evolution curriculum is not a national issue.

So I think if we just let the fundamental Christians and Muslims kill each other, as one poster suggested above, but let the orthodox Jews stick around, the world would actually be just fine.  (That is, until some other large proseltyzing force, secular or religous, decided that the Jews should be exterminated.)

Comment #29358

Posted by Ken Shackleton on May 10, 2005 07:22 PM (e) (s)

Invigilator wrote:

Wait!  Isn’t all science a Jewish conspiracy!?

We can thank [insert your God here] that Hitler thought so….at least with respect to nuclear physics….otherwise the Nazis might have built the atomic bomb before the Americans.

Comment #29365

Posted by Sir_Toejam on May 10, 2005 08:40 PM (e) (s)

“So I think if we just let the fundamental Christians and Muslims kill each other, as one poster suggested above, but let the orthodox Jews stick around, the world would actually be just fine.  (That is, until some other large proseltyzing force, secular or religous, decided that the Jews should be exterminated.)”

uh, that would be the winner of the crusades.

Comment #29396

Posted by isidore on May 11, 2005 04:55 AM (e) (s)

“uh, that would be the winner of the crusades.”

And when can we expect a winner?

Comment #29413

Posted by Marek14 on May 11, 2005 11:01 AM (e) (s)

Hey, I’m Czech - if I remember my history lessons correctly, we had a crusade waged against us in 15th century and we won.

Comment #29425

Posted by Sir_Toejam on May 11, 2005 01:44 PM (e) (s)

“And when can we expect a winner?”

I have no idea; ask GW, he might know.

Comment #29437

Posted by isidore on May 11, 2005 03:57 PM (e) (s)

“I have no idea; ask GW, he might know.”

Bush isn’t the one ridding the land of Jews and trying to re-estabish a medeival, fundamentalist caliphate in the Middle East.  That would be the other guys…

Comment #29438

Posted by Sir_Toejam on May 11, 2005 04:02 PM (e) (s)

I didn’t say he was, only that he might know.

”..re-estabish a medeival, fundamentalist caliphate in the Middle East”

no, he’s trying to do that here instead.  that’s why i thought he might know.

Comment #29439

Posted by Sir_Toejam on May 11, 2005 04:05 PM (e) (s)

btw, before this gets too far, you do of course realize i’m just being silly, right?

Comment #29817

Posted by Tom Beck on May 13, 2005 10:13 AM (e) (s)

I’m devoutly Jewish, and I see absolutely no conflict between my faith and science. Neither do most Jews I know. The rabbi at my (Conservative) synagogue frequently says that the Torah is not a science textbook, and this is the official position of the Conservative Movement. Except for the ultra-Orthodox, Biblical literalism, especially in matters of science and nature, is extremely rare among Jews.

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