Nick Matzke posted Entry 3174 on June 5, 2007 07:51 PM.
Trackback URL: http://www.pandasthumb.org/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.fcgi/3164

The Answers in Genesis world, that is. That is the impression you clearly get from the 40-page Briese Report posted on the Briese Committee website of Creation Ministries International, formerly known as AiG-Australia, until (according to the Briese Report) a number of amazing/suspicious/incredible events occurred that basically amounted to Ken Ham’s AiG-USA taking over the name, copyrighted content, and mailing lists of AiG Australia. The report makes you realize some things about modern creationism: (1) It’s a big business and the money comes from the subscribers to publications and the speaking tours to fundamentalist churches; (2) thus, economic competition between groups for limited resource of audiences and subscribers is very real; and (3) Ken Ham knows these facts very well, and according to the Briese Report he has twisted a lot of arms to make sure AiG-USA stays on top. I have not been able to find a response from AiG-USA, if anyone finds something please post it.

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Comment #182559

Posted by waldteufel on June 5, 2007 10:10 PM (e)

Someone, somehow needs to get to the sheeple who are the targets and victims of AiG that their scumbag Ken Ham is being sued.

AiG won’t come forward with this until they are completely outed to those mindless and vulnerable folks who fill their coffers.

I don’t know how to do this. I just hope someone does.

Comment #182563

Posted by Chris Ho-Stuart on June 5, 2007 10:30 PM (e)

Jim Lippard follows all of this very closely. He has obtained, and placed on his blog, an email sent by AiG (USA) to all its supporters, together with parenthetical comments added by CMI (Australia) when they got hold of a copy.

See Answers in Genesis responds to CMI.

The whole thing makes nauseating reading. In any dispute we expect each side to express their position as being the one with moral high ground; but when fundamentalists do this it is just that much more creepy, with comments on who is being “godly” and worries about sin and so on.

I especially like AiG speaking of “Answers in Genesis under Spiritual Attack”.

Ooooh. “Spiritual”. No Ken, AiG is simply facing a perfectly conventional legal lawsuit. Nothing spiritual about it. The only thing you might call a spiritual attack, by the light of your religion, would be back two or three years ago when you faced up to temptations to rip off your parent body and run rough shed over their input into your little empire. And guess what? You lost the “spiritual” warfare at that point when you opted for underhanded avariciousness.

Cheers – Chris

Comment #182566

Posted by Nick (Matzke) on June 5, 2007 10:44 PM (e)

Thanks Chris!

Comment #182571

Posted by Nick (Matzke) on June 5, 2007 11:24 PM (e)

Wow. That’s amazing. And I think AiG-USA is in serious legal trouble.

Comment #182606

Posted by Thanatos on June 7, 2007 8:05 PM (e)

no services yet?

Comment #182607

Posted by Thanatos on June 7, 2007 8:07 PM (e)

at last!!!!!!!

Comment #182609

Posted by Thanatos on June 7, 2007 8:12 PM (e)

the Panda has risen from the dead.
Long live the Panda!!!(and its thumb)

Comment #182615

Posted by Nic George on June 7, 2007 8:27 PM (e)

(2) thus, economic competition between groups for limited resource of audiences and subscribers is very real;

What, there is unconscious selection amongst competing creationist organizations? How ironic.

Comment #182616

Posted by Thanatos on June 7, 2007 8:34 PM (e)

Nic George,is that Nikolaos Georgioy?
(being australian I’m guessing thus)
nevermind if not

Comment #182621

Posted by Paul Burnett on June 7, 2007 9:18 PM (e)

I had to laugh at a comment the Australians made: “We are filled with dismay at the many distortions of truth and misleading comments in this…” (http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/499…, first blue paragraph).

But that’s what creationists do; it’s what they’re good at; it’s how they make their money.

Why are they surprised?

We must do everything we can to encourage this internecine warfare. Hopefully they will nicely balance out each other’s resource use and mutually self-destruct.

Comment #182626

Posted by Nick (Matzke) on June 7, 2007 9:34 PM (e)

Testing, testing. I think what happened is that PT’s server exploded just as the Discovery Institute rolled out the new supplementary “it’s not creationism, we swear!” biology textbook Explore Evolution. The irony spike was just too much for the poor old server.

Comment #182654

Posted by Mike Elzinga on June 8, 2007 12:00 AM (e)

What is particularly ironic about this dispute is that the creationists are seeking a resolution to their problems in a secular court where verifiable evidence counts. They apparent recognize intuitively that God can’t help them.

And I am certainly not going to say “God help them”.

Comment #182671

Posted by Daryl Cobranchi on June 8, 2007 3:02 AM (e)

Ken Ham was on CNN tonight (Glenn Beck’s show, I think) spewing his “critical thinking” nonsense. The worst bit was the guest host agreeing with a hearty “Amen!”

Comment #182679

Posted by Nic George on June 8, 2007 7:43 AM (e)

Nic George,is that Nikolaos Georgioy?
(being australian I’m guessing thus)
nevermind if not

Nope, I’m afraid not.

Comment #182698

Posted by Nick (Matzke) on June 8, 2007 12:14 PM (e)

Detailed review of the situation:
http://duoquartuncia.blogspot.com/2007/06/answer…

Comment #182703

Posted by Jedidiah Palosaari on June 8, 2007 12:51 PM (e)

It also showed what a myriad world Literal Creationism is, and how many new branches and groups have evolved over the decades. Something Pennock brings out rather nicely in his Tower of Babel- Literal Creationism isn’t a monolithic entity, but rather is many different groups competing against each other in order to survive and gain new members. Honestly, if Ham had just asked us, we could have explained the principles of this to him and predicted that it would happen.

Comment #182748

Posted by Thanatos on June 8, 2007 9:19 PM (e)

Nic George,is that Nikolaos Georgioy?
(being australian I’m guessing thus)
nevermind if not

Nope, I’m afraid not.

ok thanks for the answer
(my guess was partially based on the fact that the only
people of anglosaxonian origin I think I’ve heard of (sur)named George,
are Lloyd George and Boy George :-) )

Thanks anyway and nevermind

Comment #182790

Posted by Wheels on June 9, 2007 3:29 PM (e)

Mike Elzinga wrote:

What is particularly ironic about this dispute is that the creationists are seeking a resolution to their problems in a secular court where verifiable evidence counts. They apparent recognize intuitively that God can’t help them.

And I am certainly not going to say “God help them”.

I wish God would help them, just not in this particular legal issue. With a little divine intervention, maybe the could at last come to realize how stupid and dishonest their quest is and find the moral fiber to quit it. Nothing secular seems to have worked very much, perhaps we require a miracle!

Comment #182856

Posted by Just Bob on June 10, 2007 4:37 PM (e)

I’m an atheist. I don’t want to take over the world. So you’re a liar. Nyaa–nyaa!

Comment #182862

Posted by Sir_Toejam on June 10, 2007 6:57 PM (e)

speaking of grady/clarrisa/legion…

was it ever determined if they/it were behind the DOS attack?

I still have money riding on that.

Comment #183081

Posted by Kountrygrl on June 13, 2007 9:05 PM (e)

I have never seen a website so intent upon bashing Creationism. You people are soooo supportive of evolution in the religious sense, right? Why don’t you spend more time talking about the brilliance of evolution? The next big break in the theory? The next big discovery to make the cover of Time magazine? Why essentially waste your time and scientific magnificence on debunking Creationism?

Oh, also, I can tell you people hate AiG and think it’s a big money-making scandal (what fun that is, right?), but did you also know that the museum in Cincinnati was built for a mere $27 million? Business men from the private, secular sector claimed they could never have done it in under $100 million. Perhaps the Creationists’ God DOES supply all their needs. Creepy huh? You won’t be able to prove that one with a beaker.

Comment #183082

Posted by Sir_Toejam on June 13, 2007 9:09 PM (e)

You people are soooo supportive of evolution in the religious sense, right?

find me a church that teaches evolution, and you might be able to find a pastor of evolution.

what? they don’t exist you say?

oops, there goes your primary premise.

Comment #183085

Posted by Kountrygrl on June 13, 2007 10:00 PM (e)

One definition of religion is: “The commitment or devotion to a faith”
Well….you people cannot prove evolution in the sense that the earth was formed by it (or that we all came from a rock). It is a faith that you hold. Therefore….it’s your religion. I personally don’t believe in real-life transformers…more than meets the eye!

You don’t need a pastor to have church my friend. Good luck with your religion…I’ll stick with mine. After 5 seconds into Eternity, you may find that you will change you mind. At that point, it will be too late (or maybe you’ll get lucky and turn back into a rock).

God be with you, my friend.

P.S. God allows U-turns.

Comment #183088

Posted by Sir_Toejam on June 13, 2007 10:33 PM (e)

Well….you people cannot prove evolution in the sense that the earth was formed by it

ROFLMAO.

yeah, ya got us there.

Comment #183243

Posted by The Long Boy on June 15, 2007 9:01 AM (e)

You don’t need a pastor to have church my friend. Good luck with your religion…I’ll stick with mine. After 5 seconds into Eternity, you may find that you will change you mind. At that point, it will be too late (or maybe you’ll get lucky and turn back into a rock).

The transgressive thrill from engaging in buggery and cunnilingus right now has blinded their minds to the Wrath of God they will face on Judgment Day. I wonder if our Lord Jesus will give our Brother Jerry the privilege of throwing PZ Myers into the Lake of Fire

Comment #186051

Posted by Corbs on July 5, 2007 4:51 PM (e)

AIG International & Creation Ministries International have commenced legal action in the Queensland Supreme Court against AIG Kentucky and Ken Ham.

Claim lodged 31 May 2006. No defence lodged as yet.

Comment #186054

Posted by Corbs on July 5, 2007 4:57 PM (e)

Obviously that should be 31 May 2007.