Tara Smith posted Entry 3200 on June 21, 2007 03:45 PM.
Trackback URL: http://www.pandasthumb.org/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.fcgi/3189

I was back in Ohio last week to celebrate my grandparents’ 60th wedding anniversary. While I was in the area, a number of the PT regulars also met up south of Cincinnati to take our own tour of Answers in Genesis’ Creation Museum. (Wesley has a picture of the group here; I’ll also try to scan in another “official” picture tomorrow).

My brain still hurts. My thoughts on everything over at Aetiology (with photos, of course).

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Comment #184102

Posted by Richiyaado on June 21, 2007 8:59 PM (e)

When we lived in Cincinnati, Sheriff Simon Leis (sp?) arrested Contemporary Art Center curator, Dennis Barrie, for pornography. His offense? a showing of Robert Mappelthorpe (again sp?) photography. Those photos depicting the male “weenus” were set aside in a separate gallery, and you had to at least eighteen years old to enter. Made no difference to Sheriff Leis… he and his posse arrived opening night, arrested Mr. Barrie and closed the show. The following week or so, the city of San Francisco declared a “Dennis Barrie Day.”

Anyway, I thought this was the nadir in the “crazy shite that happens in Cincinnati” department. I was wrong… the Creation Museum has Sheriff Leis beat.

Comment #184106

Posted by Sir_Toejam on June 21, 2007 9:24 PM (e)

Sigh. Damaging young minds, one googly eye at a time.

perfect summation.

Comment #184111

Posted by Henry J on June 21, 2007 9:49 PM (e)

Re “My brain still hurts.”

Take two intelligently designed aspirin…


Comment #184115

Posted by Carol Clouser on June 22, 2007 1:22 AM (e)

What a waste of resources, effort, time and money, all in defense of what - turning a blind eye to the overwhelming scientific evidence AND totally ignoring what even a literal reading of the genuine article, that is the real, original Hebrew Bible, says and means about origins.

May I remind these Xian “literalists” that the book they distort is a product of the Jews, by the Jews and for the Jews. It was written in the language of the ancient Jews, came with an oral tradition passed on between Jews and is designed with grammatical and contextual conventions in mind. The Xian Johnny-come-latelies to the Bible, who can read only the sloppy third generation translations know neither the language nor the rules nor the style nor the conventions nor the traditions to be able to pontificate about the Bible (the so called Old Testament).

Where do they get the right to take another peoples’ cherished tradition and proceed to distort it and call it their own? Who ever gave them permission to do this? Why doesn’t anyone call them on this act of grand larceny?

Comment #184126

Posted by Frank J on June 22, 2007 5:37 AM (e)


I may disagree with you about evolution, but what you say about Christians and Jews (I’m neither) is perfect. I wish that more of my fellow “evolutionists” would get off the annoying (and counterproductive) “Darwin vs. Jesus” kick and expose that well-kept secret.

Comment #184139

Posted by David Stanton on June 22, 2007 7:43 AM (e)

Frank J,

I agree. Maybe we should intoduce Carol to Mark Hausam. You know, the guy who does not take the word of any scientific authority for anything and yet insists on his “own” interpretation of scripture (which he obviously got from some authority figure).

Comment #184159

Posted by Paul Flocken on June 22, 2007 9:17 AM (e)

I have often wondered why Clouser never speaks up when a fundatic is wandering around the Thumb. But I realized after a while that helping them understand is not her goal. She is as much about her religion as they are theirs. Want she wants is for the scientists to accept the legitimacy of her religion. That is why she is here and not over at AIG. I think there is flattery of a sorts there for science because she respects science and the fundatics do not have a respectable position. Mark Hausam is, however, the perfect test subject for her and she has been challenged to just that test before by people here at PT.

Come on Carol. Show us the money.


Comment #184160

Posted by raven on June 22, 2007 9:18 AM (e)

Where do they get the right to take another peoples’ cherished tradition and proceed to distort it and call it their own? Who ever gave them permission to do this? Why doesn’t anyone call them on this act of grand larceny?

OK, you have convinced me. Take the old testament back. Please. LOL.

We are keeping the new testament however. But if you ask nicely maybe you can borrow it. After all, Jesus was Jewish too.

Comment #184169

Posted by Paul Flocken on June 22, 2007 10:00 AM (e)

Carol Clouser wrote:

Where do they get the right to take another peoples’ cherished tradition and proceed to distort it and call it their own? Who ever gave them permission to do this? Why doesn’t anyone call them on this act of grand larceny?

I read this several times before I could put my finger on the irony. (I never have replaced my irony meter after the surgery to remove the shrapnel.)

Carol, They certainly had the prerogative to do just that. They didn’t need anyone’s permission. But the religion of the Hebrews was pretty derivative too. They also took what they wanted from the Babylonians (and others) and distorted it and made it their own. Now who exactly gave them permission to do that?

OK, That is enough contamination of Tara’s thread. I won’t answer if you reply. I will, instead, await with baited breath your appearance in Nick’s ‘Biblical Inerrancy’ thread to explain literalism to Mark Hausam. Please don’t let me turn blue.


Comment #184170

Posted by TheBlackCat on June 22, 2007 10:01 AM (e)

I thought the new testament was written largely in Greek.

Comment #184174

Posted by Carol Clouser on June 22, 2007 10:19 AM (e)

Frank J,

I don’t know of any disagreement between you and me about evolution but Xian distortion of the OT goes way beyond evolution. Such topics as homosexuality, racism and of course Jesus immediately come to mind.

David Stanton,

I watched that “Mark thread” with amusement and was tempted to jump in here and there but refrained so as not to interfere with the intense discussion going on.

Paul Flocken,

So you have been keeping track of my footsteps. But as usual you totally misread me. I engage in conversation with intelligent, knowledgeable (and civil) folk, not in shouting matches with ignoramuses. That should explain the trends you quite correctly observed.


You got a deal, buddy! And thanks, but no thanks, we will not be needing your NT.

Comment #184178

Posted by paul flocken on June 22, 2007 10:59 AM (e)

Oh yeah, Congrats Tara on your parents making it to 60. Hope you see the same success!

Comment #184186

Posted by David Stanton on June 22, 2007 12:49 PM (e)


Thanks for responding to my comment. It appears that Mark is still looking in on the other thread. I don’t think you would be disrupting anything if you dropped in. Anything you could do to disuade him from his position of “Biblical inerrancy” would certainly be appreciated. However, as I have maintained all along, it seems a hopeless task.

Perhaps you could point out the hypocrisy of not trusting any scientific authority but taking the word of every Biblical scholar for granted, at least if they agree with him. Joe has already pointed this out to him, but so far no response. I find that it is very difficult to mock him into responding to tough questions.

Comment #184226

Posted by David B. Benson on June 22, 2007 7:19 PM (e)

Yes, yes, YES! Please, a thread just for Carol Clauser and Mark Hausam!

Wow, every day I can look in to get a deep belly laugh!

Please, please, please…

Comment #184309

Posted by Peter Henderson on June 23, 2007 9:54 AM (e)

Why am I unable to post on this thread ?

Comment #184312

Posted by Peter Henderson on June 23, 2007 9:55 AM (e)

Sigh. Damaging young minds, one googly eye at a time.

There’s a talk by Mike Riddle of Answers in Genesis, which goes out on a British TV station, from this school :


Most of the kids appear to be 10-13year olds. Riddle spends most of the lecture indoctrinating the children on how science is wrong. On what happened to the dinosaurs;

“The silliest theory of them all is that dinosaurs turned into birds”

Shame on them Tara, and also the churches and Christian schools that have given AiG credence.

I found this offensive:


Remember that light years are a measure of distance, not time.

part of the respose to the Defcon leaflet

That’s just lying to Christians, in my book

and this from yesterday’s article:


It is time for the church, especially her leaders and scholars, to stop ignoring the age of the earth and the scientific evidence that increasingly vindicates the Word of God. The church must repent of her compromise with millions of years and once again believe and preach the literal truth of Genesis 1–11. It is time to take the church back to Genesis.

Telling Christians that somehow the idea that the Earth/Universe is very old is merely some kind of philosophy, is again lying.

Why the evangelical wing of church has allowed itself to be dragged along with this is still beyond me.

Comment #184346

Posted by Henry J on June 23, 2007 3:48 PM (e)

Re “Why am I unable to post on this thread?”

I can’t answer that, since I can’t have seen it because you couldn’t post it. ;)


Comment #185961

Posted by troy on July 5, 2007 1:09 PM (e)

we just took a trip to the museum this week. i thought it was awsome. they really put a lot of thought and hard work into their presentation. and also, no Christian is refuting actual “scientific” information, as unread people infer. The only thing we refute is the idea that evolution is a proven fact. evolution is based on “SUPPOSED” ideas laid down only in the last couple hundred years by geology. It takes a measure of faith to believe in their “THEORY”. You can measure things like distance, time(relative), speed, heat, weight, height, that is science. but evolution and much geology is based on things that cannot be measured, only supposed. they work from the premis that there is no God, while we Christians work on the premis that indeed there is a God. Both evolution, and belief in God are religions. one is devoid of any morality, and the other gives us a standard to live by. Since evolution, atheism, and polytheism are the religions taught in public schools now, we have school shootings, increase in sexual tramsmitted diseses, teenage pregnancy(mostly out of wedlock), abortions(do the math and its a mattter of national security), and all manner of immoral practices. so with that, there are advantages to keeping with the biblical standard of living.

Comment #185964

Posted by ben on July 5, 2007 1:23 PM (e)

What explains the strong correlation between religious wingnuttery and the inability to construct a coherent paragraph?

Troy–don’t bother answering, it’s a rhetorical question everyone here but you already knows the answer to.