Ed Brayton posted Entry 1642 on November 3, 2005 12:29 PM.
Trackback URL: http://www.pandasthumb.org/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.fcgi/1637

The battle over creationism in public schools is heading for Indiana, as lawmakers there prepare to submit a bill to mandate the teaching of intelligent design there. And in the process, they’re leaving behind all sorts of evidence of the essential equation of ID and creationism.

The proposal comes a little more than a month after Bosma and a handful of other House members met privately with Carl Baugh, host of the Trinity Broadcasting Network show “Creationism in the 21st Century,” to discuss bringing intelligent design to public schools.

Baugh was in town as the guest of Zion Unity Missionary Baptist Church, a small Indianapolis church whose pastor, the Rev. Fredrick W. Boyd Jr., is an acquaintance of Baugh’s. Baugh is founder and director of the Creation Evidence Museum in Glen Rose, Texas.

Boyd said Bosma and the lawmakers already were pursuing the idea, but they wanted to hear Baugh’s thoughts on how to create the legislation.

Folks, if you want to show that ID is not old fashioned creation science under a new name, you gotta stay away from folks like Carl Baugh. Carl Baugh is a young earth, global flood, humans lived with dinosaurs creationist. He’s also a complete fraud, still pushing the Paluxy “manprints” more than a decade after even his fellow creationists at the Institute for Creation Research and Answers in Genesis admitted they weren’t human footprints and urged their followers not to use them as evidence any longer (and more than three decades after they were debunked by Walter Lammerts, founder of the Creation Research Society, who recognized that the Paluxy prints, if they were genuine, created just as much of a problem for creationism as for evolution because, as he put it, “On the basis of a worldwide flood what were people doing walking around yet after so much sediment deposited?”).

One of the state lawmakers may have given away the game a bit as well:

Rep. Tim Harris, R-Marion, also believes evolution and intelligent design should be taught.

“It takes just as much faith to believe in the evolution hypothesis as it does what we are now calling intelligent design,” he said.

If the bill passes and legal action is required, they will have a difficult time explaining away these things in a court case where the key issue, as in the Dover case, is whether ID is a genuine scientific theory or “creationism in a cheap tuxedo” (since the Supreme Court has already ruled 7-2 that creationism cannot be taught in science classrooms). Approximately the same difficulty that the ID advocates have in explaining why they keep saying that they don’t want ID taught in science classrooms, yet their own earlier material shows them quite clearly encouraging schools to do so and while their senior fellows are arguing in favor of teaching ID in science classrooms, as William Dembski did last night in a debate at Boston University. All of which points up the Janus-like nature of the ID movement.

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Comment #54976

Posted by Curt Rozeboom on November 3, 2005 1:26 PM (e)

Some other sites dealing with ID in Indiana:

Political cartoonist Gary Varvel has been engaging several of us in a weekly blog which he calls “Stuck on Stupid Thursday”. No new entry as of this writing, but I expect one soon. http://blogs.indystar.com/expresso/

The organization, “The Mighty Cannon”, has threatened to sue my school district to get ID taught, but it seems their efforts have run into financial hardship. http://mightycannon.org/

Comment #54986

Posted by Bayesian Bouffant, FCD on November 3, 2005 2:09 PM (e)

The organization, “The Mighty Cannon”, has threatened to sue my school district to get ID taught…

Hopefully the Kitzmiller v. Dover case will set a nice clear legal precedent for that.

The Mighty Cannon folks can’t even seem to keep their web site running right, I’m having trouble connecting.

Comment #54999

Posted by hessal on November 3, 2005 2:57 PM (e)

I confess, I’ve been waiting with dread and trepidation (sorry for the repetitive redundancy) for the paluxy shoe to fall here in Indiana. OTOH, since this state is a bastion for the theocratic forces of conservatism (we haven’t gone blue since Barry AuH2O), I wonder hey, what took so long?

After reading a previous IDiot blog topic of his, Gary Varvel strikes me as the worst kind of agitator, just spouting dumb stuff to provoke reaction, rather than presenting anything thoughtful, intelligent, or even rational. I would normally just ignore him, but the power of the press shouldn’t be underestimated; after all, our local sports writers were instrumental in getting Bob Knight (pbuh) fired.

We (the royal WE, because our legislators certainly think they are royalty) have just enacted a mandatory moment of silence in public schools this year, so I guess the rest of this was sure to follow.

good luck to us all

Comment #55065

Posted by John Hynes on November 3, 2005 6:42 PM (e)

Some things don’t change. I was taught about creation in religion class at a public elementary school in Fort Wayne back in the early 1970s. The class was held in a trailer parked on the school lot (apparently to get around the 1st Amendment) and there was one kid in my class who had to sit by himself because his parents held him out. This continued until a tornado hit the trailer.

Let’s not forget that this is the state whose House of Representatives unanimously passed a bill stating that pi is equal to 3.2.

Comment #55070

Posted by J-Dog on November 3, 2005 6:56 PM (e)

To be fair, the pi thing was back in the 1800’s, BUT there is STILL no excuse for Indiana drivers… Worst in the world. They drive 50 in a 55 zone so they don’t accidently go over, and drive 50 in the fast lane too.

Back on topic, Indiana politicians in general are proof IMO that combining recessive genes are bad, and stongly hints as to why cultures have taboos against incest.

Comment #55073

Posted by Norman Doering on November 3, 2005 7:06 PM (e)

John Hynes wrote: “I was taught about creation in religion class at a public elementary school in Fort Wayne back in the early 1970s.”

I live in Valpariaso Indiana and I’ve met a few college educated creationists. Valpo high school didn’t teach creationism when I attended, but my teacher didn’t explore evolution much either. Got the basics od DNA, genetics and anatomy. I learned most of what I know about evolution on the net from sites like this. I still liked my biology class. It was one of my favorite classes.

“…this is the state whose House of Representatives unanimously passed a bill stating that pi is equal to 3.2.”

It’s also a very red/republican state that went solidly for Bush. During the 2004 elections I saw some really blantant religion pandering from politicians out here.

Comment #55135

Posted by Registered User on November 4, 2005 3:37 AM (e)

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/11/03/abramoff/index_np.html

The wackos get their information through the Christian right, Christian radio, mail, the internet and telephone trees,” Scanlon wrote in the memo, which was read into the public record at a hearing of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee. “Simply put, we want to bring out the wackos to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them.

That’s Mike Scanlon, aide to Tom DeLay.

Those “wackos” sort of remind me of the rubes on the Dover School Board. You know, the ones who don’t read their local news because “it’s all lies.”

Someone should Mike Scanlon know that when he talks that way it just feeds into the perceptions of the “wackos” that conservatives are elitists.

Oh, wait a minute …

Comment #55152

Posted by hessal on November 4, 2005 7:39 AM (e)

John Hynes:
I went to school in Fort Wayne also. I was in 5th grade in 1972 and there was a religion class in a trailer. My parents did not hold me out of the class, but unknown to them, I didn’t turn in the permission slip to go to that class. But the teacher made a proclamation “if you aren’t hindu or muslim or jewish then you’re going to this class.” I didn’t know what any of those were, and that was the end of my rebellion for that year.

Comment #55156

Posted by morbius on November 4, 2005 8:08 AM (e)

The wackos get their information through the Christian right, Christian radio, mail, the internet and telephone trees,” Scanlon wrote in the memo, which was read into the public record at a hearing of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee. “Simply put, we want to bring out the wackos to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them.

Lost here from the article is the emphasis on “against”. As they note:

The brilliance of this strategy was twofold: Not only would most voters not know about an initiative to protect Coushatta gambling revenues, but religious “wackos” could be tricked into supporting gambling at the Coushatta casino even as they thought they were opposing it.

This characterizes the Republican party: an extremely corrupt elite leading extremely stupid rubes by the nose, telling them that black is white and getting them to vote against their own interests.

Comment #55161

Posted by fusilier on November 4, 2005 8:19 AM (e)

If Indiana is to be a “BioTechnology Crossroads” (see http://www.bloomingtonlifesciences.com/Regional_Efforts/Default.htm) then we need to explain in words of one syllable that Johnsonist-Dembskiism isn’t going to help.

Jobs, Mitch, JOBS!

fusilier
James 2:24

Comment #55169

Posted by Jungle Jim on November 4, 2005 9:33 AM (e)

Mitch is supposed to speak to the State Legislature today about this issue. So far I do not know whether the intent is to promote the idea or lambaste it.

I’ve already written my Representative and told him in no uncertain terms that the Republican party will be losing my vote if it goes through with this.

I just moved to Indiana 2 years ago so I’m keeping my fingers crossed on this issue.

Comment #55170

Posted by Pete K on November 4, 2005 9:34 AM (e)

“Approximately the same difficulty that the ID advocates have in explaining why they keep saying that they don’t want ID taught in science classrooms, yet their own earlier material shows them quite clearly encouraging schools to do so and while their senior fellows are arguing in favor of teaching ID in science classrooms, as William Dembski did last night in a debate at Boston University”

God, what a rambling sentence!

Comment #55181

Posted by Bayesian Bouffant, FCD on November 4, 2005 10:32 AM (e)

Kurt Vonnegut made a few appearances recently. It would be great if someone would interview him for a few pithy quotes on this topic.

Comment #55194

Posted by Arden Chatfield on November 4, 2005 11:55 AM (e)

After reading a previous IDiot blog topic of his, Gary Varvel strikes me as the worst kind of agitator, just spouting dumb stuff to provoke reaction, rather than presenting anything thoughtful, intelligent, or even rational

I think the word is ‘demagogue’.

Comment #55294

Posted by tytlal on November 4, 2005 11:21 PM (e)

That’s just great. I live here as well. This is a very Republican/religious area.

I worked for State government, Attorney General’s Office no less, and I can tell you that Christian religious items are very visible in some cubicles. Yes, this directly relates to Intelligent Design as it has long been determined that ID is tied to Christianity.

Sympathy for ID here in IN? You bet. Not by my acquaintances. I’ll be the first in line to protest this nonsense.

If only there were as many science buildings as churches … which brings me to the point of “how can anyone in this state believe that there is no place to hear the ‘alternative’ theory”?

Next on the agenda at the Indiana Statehouse: The Alternative Theory of Lightening - Benjamin Franklin was wrong. God creates lightening bolts.

Comment #55313

Posted by Bob O'H on November 5, 2005 6:58 AM (e)

John Hynes wrote:

Let’s not forget that this is the state whose House of Representatives unanimously passed a bill stating that pi is equal to 3.2.

If this site is correct, the bill was only postponed. Are there any anti-ID senators in Indiana with a sense of humour? It would be a fun way of making a point.

Bob

Comment #55374

Posted by Spencer on November 5, 2005 6:17 PM (e)

I got a legislative survey from my representative a week or so ago. I made sure it was filled out for the wife and myself indicating our lack of support for ID legislation. I even went as far as to call my representative and inform his answering machine of the fact that his question elevated ID to a theory, which would invalidate his survey results.

Comment #55396

Posted by Jason Spaceman on November 5, 2005 9:33 PM (e)

From an editorial in yesterday’s Fort Wayne Journal Gazette:

House Speaker Brian Bosma apparently is on board with Border’s plan, having met last month with Carl Baugh, host of Trinity Broadcasting Network’s “Creationism in the 21st Century.” The Rev. Frederick Boyd, whose Indianapolis church hosted Baugh’s visit, told the Star that Bosma was already pursuing intelligent design legislation, but wanted Baugh’s ideas on how to create it.

An example of those ideas are found at the Web site for the Creation Evidence Museum, which Baugh founded in Glen Rose, Texas. “Among museums, this entity makes a unique contribution, demonstrating that man and dinosaur lived contemporaneously,” the Web site boasts.

Unique, indeed. Sixty-three million years elapsed between the time dinosaurs walked the Earth and man appeared, in spite of what Baugh and Flintstones fans might suggest. It’s troubling to learn the speaker is leaning on such a source for advice on Indiana’s academic standards, or that he is meddling in the state’s academic standards in any fashion. That’s best left to the State Board of Education, which has wisely approved standards based on teaching evolution.

Comment #55408

Posted by 'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank on November 6, 2005 1:26 AM (e)

House Speaker Brian Bosma apparently is on board with Border’s plan, having met last month with Carl Baugh, host of Trinity Broadcasting Network’s “Creationism in the 21st Century.”

But ID doesn’t have anything to do with creationism. No sirree Bob. Not a thing.

Gosh, these idiots certainly are making things easy for us, aren’t they ….

Comment #55436

Posted by Bayesian Bouffant, FCD on November 6, 2005 3:14 PM (e)

God speak in mysterious ways - Tornado rips through Indiana. I think God is saying “You nitwits, stop with the Creationism. You’re trying to make me look like an incompetent.”