Richard B. Hoppe posted Entry 1427 on August 31, 2005 03:51 PM.
Trackback URL: http://www.pandasthumb.org/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.fcgi/1423

The recent Kansas creationist kangaroo court hearings on evolution run by three creationist members of the Kansas State Board of Education (see here and here for stories) and the previous (1999) debacle in Kansas are having consquences for higher education in that state. In a story in the Lawrence Journal-World the Provost of Kansas University said

For the state to be portrayed repeatedly in the national press as being anti-science does damage to this university. The frustration is you fight this reputation problem every step of the way.

KU dropped three places in the most recent U.S. News & World Report rankings of universities.

Kathy Martin, one of the creationist members of the Kansas State BOE, pooh-poohed the issue, saying

I feel most people could probably care less,” she said. “I really don’t think it’s that big of a deal except in certain circles.

“Certain circles” presumably refers to those who actually know something about the issue.

This is a wakeup call for Ohio, my principal concern. Consider these events:

    The recent discovery of the scandal associated with Bryan Leonard’s Ph.D. candidacy at the Ohio State University
    Ohio’s so-called “Critical Analysis” model lesson plan drawn straight from Jonathan Wells’s trash science (= Icons of Evolution), and
    Ohio’s ethically impaired but politically powerful Governor pressuring the State BOE to weaken the science standards, which allowed that lesson plan to be considered.

None of this bodes well for the Ohio State University.

RBH

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Comment #45929

Posted by Bayesian Bouffant, FCD on August 31, 2005 4:18 PM (e)

I think you should offer a prize for the most relevant quote from the New Testament book of Acts.

Comment #45931

Posted by guthrie on August 31, 2005 4:45 PM (e)

Richard, your javascript on the “critical analysis model lesson plan” is broken or something.

Comment #45936

Posted by RBH on August 31, 2005 5:12 PM (e)

Fixed. Thanks!

RBH

Comment #45957

Posted by Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry on August 31, 2005 6:30 PM (e)

> I feel most people could probably care less

Taken as written, she obviously feels people care a lot. Unless this ignorant woman was actually trying to convey that people ‘could NOT care less’. There is a rather big difference between the two sentences but obviously education is not her strong point. Or is that edukation? Hmmm… perhaps we could give her an exam (starting with a scan to see if there is a brain).

Cheers
B

Comment #45960

Posted by Flint on August 31, 2005 6:40 PM (e)

There’s a picture of Kathy Martin in a recent Science magazine. I’d estimate she’s in her upper 70s at least. Expecting her to be current with anything might be a stretch.

Comment #45975

Posted by NJ on August 31, 2005 8:15 PM (e)

Flint wrote:

There’s a picture of Kathy Martin in a recent Science magazine. I’d estimate she’s in her upper 70s at least.

Is that age or IQ? I ask merely for information…

Comment #45976

Posted by Steviepinhead on August 31, 2005 8:17 PM (e)

Re terms “offensive” enough to “require” editing or other censorship:

I have gathered from past side-chatter that this is largely in the discretion–and dependent on the attentiveness vel non–of whoever posted up the original article.

Thus, while PT contributors in general tend to eschew the heavy-handed tactics of the ID and creationist folk, there really isn’t one overarching, goose-and-gander “PT rule” of which terms will be deemed offensive or of what level of, um, feisty discourse will draw the ire of the original contributor.

Which may be harder on our commentators, but still nicely exemplifies the ragged, jury-rigged hand of evolution as opposed to the regimented, lock-step approach of the fuhrers of “design.”

Comment #45978

Posted by bill on August 31, 2005 8:25 PM (e)

Stevie’s right. I design all my remarks to be removed from Dembski’s site. My success rate is 100%.

For my next feat I will design a successful replacement for Kathy Martin on the Kansas State BOE.

Note to self: avoid blonde hair…

Comment #45980

Posted by Paul Flocken on August 31, 2005 8:33 PM (e)

It is such a shame too that so much emphasis is placed on the college rankings of various organizations, though especially USN&WR. I have read in several different newspapers and from this book that the methodology in determining the rankings is abysmally shoddy.
Dr. Fry, As has been pointed out elsewhere, english is a rich enough language to not have to resort to four letter words to insult someone. For instance: I’ve listened to the bicoid mutant kathy martin enough to know english is her foreign language.

Use your imagination :)

Paul

Comment #45984

Posted by ts (not Tim) on August 31, 2005 9:46 PM (e)

I have gathered from past side-chatter that this is largely in the discretion—and dependent on the attentiveness vel non—of whoever posted up the original article.

And I’m glad he chose to remove that extremely offensive gender-demeaning vulgar term for part of a woman’s anatomy that not only is insulting to women but would cause this site to be filtered out by any nanny software.

Thus, while PT contributors in general tend to eschew the heavy-handed tactics of the ID and creationist folk, there really isn’t one overarching, goose-and-gander “PT rule” of which terms will be deemed offensive or of what level of, um, feisty discourse will draw the ire of the original contributor.

I didn’t say there is any such rule, but I have trouble imagining any standard, no matter how loose, by which that term would not be considered offensive.

Comment #45985

Posted by RBH on August 31, 2005 9:50 PM (e)

OK, I try to mod comments in my threads along the same lines I mod the E/C forum at Infidels. Now, if the derailment is complete … :)

RBH

Comment #46036

Posted by Canyontree on September 1, 2005 8:33 AM (e)

Why is everyone so down on Kathy Martin? Granted she is factually challenged, but rather tame when compared to the other members of the KBOE gang of three kangaroos. (Connie Morris & Steve Abrams)

Comment #46037

Posted by 'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank on September 1, 2005 8:39 AM (e)

Why is everyone so down on Kathy Martin? Granted she is factually challenged, but rather tame when compared to the other members of the KBOE gang of three kangaroos. (Connie Morris & Steve Abrams)

I welcome all three of them. They have done far more damage to the ID movement than anyone else I can think of, with the possible exception of the Dover Dolts.

I encourage all the Kansas Kooks and the Dover Dolts to speak publicly, as often and loudly as possible.

Comment #46038

Posted by 'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank on September 1, 2005 8:41 AM (e)

I encourage all the Kansas Kooks and the Dover Dolts to speak publicly, as often and loudly as possible.

And Buttars, too.

That’s the beauty of fundies – they are by far their own worst enemies.

Comment #46042

Posted by Rich on September 1, 2005 8:53 AM (e)

Hola Lenny –
Pleased you didn’t take that hiatus.

I think the biggest threat to “intelligent design” creationism is premature ejaculation. It never had any science from the get go, so that’s not the issue. It’s all the fundies shouting ‘god’ too soon, before the pre determined “shhh.. when the time is right and we have ID is schools we’ll change things” time.

Devine design, private admissions of intent, etc. all show the leopard can’t lose its spots. They may be a bunch of disingenuous pricks that are obviously are a bit creative on the whole “bare false witness” thing, but be thankfully they’re over eager and non too bright!

Comment #46060

Posted by 'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank on September 1, 2005 10:22 AM (e)

I think the biggest threat to “intelligent design” creationism is premature ejaculation. It never had any science from the get go, so that’s not the issue. It’s all the fundies shouting ‘god’ too soon, before the pre determined “shhh.. when the time is right and we have ID is schools we’ll change things” time.

That has, indeed, been the fatal flaw with the Wedge-ite’s strategy right from the beginning. It is simply impossible to turn religious preaching into anything other than religious preaching, particularly when all its followers want to do is … well . . preach. The DI’s strategy is completely dependent upon having a group of religious nuts keep quiet, indefinitely, about the one thing they care about more than anything else – their religious opinions. It’s a hopeless task. They can’t do it. They don’t WANT to do it. And if The Isaac Newton of Information Theory does as he has announced he will (changes the name to “Intelligent Evolution” and tries again), he will *still* have this fatal stumbling block in his path.

That’s what I love most about fundies. All you have to do is let them talk long enough, and they shoot themselves in the head every time. They are by far their own worst enemies.

Comment #46110

Posted by Moses on September 1, 2005 5:17 PM (e)

“could probably care less”

And she’s on the Board of Education… Arrrgggg!!! No wonder they want flat-earth psuedo-science.

Comment #46117

Posted by SEF on September 1, 2005 7:47 PM (e)

My favourite Kathy Martin quotes so far are:

We are not going to give up until the standards say what we want them to say

and

Of course this is a Christian agenda. We are a Christian nation. Our country is made up of Christian conservatives.

from here.

Comment #46119

Posted by Pedro Ferrousgate on September 1, 2005 8:20 PM (e)

… obviously are a bit creative on the whole “bare false witness” thing, but be thankfully they’re over eager and non too bright!…

Over eager or not, I can’t think of any of them I’d want as a bare false witness.

Comment #46464

Posted by Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry on September 4, 2005 12:20 PM (e)

>Dr. Fry, As has been pointed out elsewhere, english is a rich enough language to not have to resort to four letter words to insult someone. For instance: I’ve listened to the bicoid mutant kathy martin enough to know english is her foreign language. Use your imagination :)

You’re entirely right mate. Mia culpa. Mia maxima culpa.

Cheers
B